Recently, I was able to prove my three times O’Rourke great grandparents through a DNA match even though my match had no idea she had any O’Rourke’s in her ancestry. Not only was I able to finally verify my three times great grandparents names, I helped her add two more generations to her family tree.
In the O’Rourke branch of my tree going back past my two times great grandparents has proven difficult. I have not been able to locate my two times great grandfather’s James Rourke (O’Rourke) baptismal record in the Kilbroney church records in County Down. I have always made an educated guess as to who is parents were and it differed from what other family members thought.
There are two possible explanations why I can’t find James Rourke’s records. Several pages of the Kilbroney Parish church register are faded and his record may be hiding in there somewhere. The other explanation is that his parent’s never got around to baptizing him.
This is what I do know about James Rourke. He died in 1905 at the age of 80 in the townland of Ballintur in the Kilkeel civil registration district in County Down, so his birthdate must have been around 1825. He married my two-times great grandmother Mary Hughes in 1859, so he would have been about 34 years old. He had five children, his first born being my great grandfather John in 1861 and the last being my great grand uncle Francis in 1868.
I also used the Griffiths Valuation document to determine that his father’s name was John. In the Griffith’s Valuation, a John Jr. leased the same land until his death in 1869, when James Rourke took over the lease.
Based on the information above and Kilbroney Parish records of other Rourke’s in Ballintur, I determined his parent’s names were John Rourke and Mary Flanagan. There was another John Rourke who lived in Ballintur at the time. He was married to a Mary Sloan. Also, there is a baptismal record for a James Rourke born to the latter John and Mary in 1809. I don’t believe this was my two-times great grandfather based on his given age at the time of his death. Also, he would have been about 50 years old when he married Mary Hughes. Not impossible, but I don’t believe likely.
Another O’Rourke DNA match and a fourth cousin
A few weeks ago, I was comparing matches in my Ancestry.com DNA account, tree when I noticed just about every one of my known O’Rourke cousins matched someone with the username megmac4190. Ancestry also estimated megmac 4190 to be my fourth cousin.
After contacting megmac through Ancestry’s messaging system, she got back to me a few days later and said she wasn’t aware of any O’Rourke’s in her tree, but that her great grandparents were James White and Mary Sands of Kilfeaghan townland in County Down. Kilfeaghan borders the townland of Ballintur and is just a few hundred yards from where my ancestors lived, worked and died.
After a few hours of research, and an exciting discovery, I wrote back to her:
Your great grandfather James White’s parents were Richard White and Elenor or Ellen Rourke (O’Rourke). They were married Feb. 4, 1846 in Kilbroney Parish. Elenor was my second great grandfather James Rourke’s older sister.
Elenor was born in 1823 in Ballintur, Killowen, County Down to John Rourke and Mary Flanagan, my 3 times great grandparents and also your 3 times great grandparents. I believe John Rourke (O’Rourke) was born around 1790. I don’t know when Mary Flanagan was born but they were married Oct. 29, 1815 in Kilbroney Parish. John Rourke and Mary Flanagan had 12 children (one died in infancy).
Ancestry estimates us to be fourth cousins. Based on the fact that we share 3 times great grandparents, we are fourth cousins. You also match five of my third cousins who are “known” O’Rourke’s as well as my sister.
Now you have some ancestors to add to your tree. I just added all of John Rourke’s and Mary Flanagan’s children to my tree today. I previously only had my two times great grandfather James.
I had fun today trying to figure out our connection.
How I determined our relationship
I first went to Ross Davies’ County Down Family History Research site and search under the White/Whyte surname for any mention of a Roark, Roarke, Rourk, Rorke or Rourke. I also searched under Sands for the same. I found a record for a marriage of a Richard Whyte to Elenor Rorke in the Kilbroney Parish in 1846. I then painstakingly searched the Catholic Parish records and found that Richard and Elenor had a son named James in 1853, the same year that megmac’s great grandfather was born.
What I didn’t know is who was Elenor and how was she related to me? So, again, I went back through the Kilbroney Parish records beginning with the year 1820. I based that on her marriage year of 1846. Finally, in 1823, I found and Elenor baptized on April 6, 1823. Parents were James Roarke and Mary Flanagan, the same people I believed to be my third great grandparents!
Interestingly, I found another Elenor Rourke born in 1822 to a Felix Roarke and Alice Hanlon, but I don’t believe this is megmac’s two times great grandmother because we are fourth cousins. I believe Felix Roarke is probably related to each of us, but much further back. Fourth cousins share three times great grandparents.
Nice work!
Thanks, Dermot. You’ve helped me, so now I’ve helped someone else.
Impressive!
Do you think your 2x great grandfather James O’Rourke (who married Mary Hughes) was born and baptized between Bridget (April 11, 1826) and John (November 13, 1829), instead of in exactly 1825? There is a 3 year gap there, and they were having children more often than that. — I’ll email you with more.
A slight correction: in paragraph 5 you say “Also, there is a baptismal record for a James Rourke born to the latter James and Mary in 1809.” From looking at what I have of your tree and the baptismal records, I think you meant ‘the latter John and Mary’. I wish they had used a few different Christian names :). The only way I can keep them straight for myself is by referring to their marriage mates.
Hi Ed.,
I think it’s entirely possible that James was born between Bridget and John. In fact, it makes more sense than the 1825 date. If he was born in 1825, John Rourke and Mary Flanagan would have had one child per year for four straight years. (I will correct my post, thanks.)
Lois,
I was impressed with this article when I read it, but forgot the details. Consequently I spent a lot of time yesterday coming to the same conclusion based on the paper records, namely, that your James Rourke (husband of Mary Hughes) was the son of John and Mary (Flanagan) Rourke. When I searched your site for “Flanagan” today, I found the article again.
Here are a few thoughts from the paper trail:
1) There are only two John Rourkes in Ballintur on a) the parish records for the 1820’s, b) the Freeholders list in 1834, and c) Griffith’s in 1864. So your James almost had to be the son of one of them.
2) John and Mary Sloan are older than John and Mary Flanagan. Mary Sloan’s last child was born 1822, pointing to a birth year about 1777 or so.
The burial records have these two people, who I am guessing are John and Mary (Sloan) Rourke:
John Rourke, age 85 was buried in 1857 – birth would have been about 1872
Mary Rourke, age 69 was buried in 1846 – birth would have been about 1877
Could the age difference be enough to designate your John as John Jr? I think so. Junior did not always mean a man’s father’s name was the same as his. At least not in New England and other places I have seen. It meant there was another person by that name in the area.
3) John and Mary (Flanagan) Rourke had a child that wasn’t on Deidre’s transcription, Mary, baptized August 4, 1834
In the records, the four burials on Crockshee are:
June 15,1858 (31) Bridget Roark
August 23, 1861 (67) Mary Roark
November 6, 1863 (30) Mary O’Rorke
February 19, 1869 John Rorke
I think these are a family: John Rourke, Mary Flanagan, and their two daughters, Mary and Bridget.
4) You said that John’s civil death record said he died in Kilfeaghan. On Griffith’s Valuation of Kilfeaghan there is a Richard White, so John could have died at his daughter Ellen’s home.
—
I looked through all the gaps in John and Mary’s children’s baptismal records and didn’t find your James either. I think his age at death (80) might just be a round number or estimate. I would put him in the family between Thomas and Richard, there is a five year gap there.
I looked at the image of the burial record for Richard Rourke, buried August 17, 1840 in Mourne. Deidre’s transcription says the image says 28, I say it says 20. If it is 20, it would match Mary Flanagan’s oldest son, Richard, baptized April 10, 1821.
Mary Flanagan was probably from Kilbroney, not Kilkeel, or the marriage would probably not have been recorded in Kilbroney.
findmypast.ie will let you search the parish registers for free, with index only results. Sometimes they have a link to the image, or at least the book it is in. If not, you can use the indexes to go to the parish registers. Start with the generic search form https://search.findmypast.ie/search-ireland-records-in-life-events-birth-marriage-death
The disadvantage is you are relying on them to make sense of the names and transcribe them correctly.
Hi Ed,
With the lack of Irish records it’s always a guessing game. I had suspected that John Rourke and Mary Flanagan were James’ parents for a long time, but until I found the DNA match who was a descendant of the White’s of Kilfeaghan, I was reluctant to put them in my family tree as definitive. I’ve asked myself, why is there no baptismal record for James? Perhaps the priest forgot to write it down. We will never know. Other relatives of mine have put John Rourke and Mary Sloane as James’ parents in their trees, but I think they are wrong. For one thing, I believe they were too old. Now, I would like to find the connection between myself and my DNA match Tom O’Rourke who currently lives in Killowen.
Hi Ed,
After further research I believe John Rourke and Mary Flanagan’s oldest son was Thomas Rourke born in 1816. This is why: The Irish naming convention followed by many — Catholic and Protestant alike — was to name the first born son after the paternal grandfather, the second born son after the maternal grandfather, the third born son after the father and the fourth born son after the father’s oldest brother. I believe my family followed that convention. My two times great grandfather James Rourke’s first born son (my great grandfather) was named John after his grandfather and the second born son was named Francis (unfortunately Francis did not survive to see his second birthday) after his maternal grandfather Francis Hughes. The third born son James was named after his father. The next son was named Thomas. So Thomas must have been one of James’ brothers, most likely his eldest brother. Here’s the clincher: the Kilbroney Catholic Parish records for Aug. 16, 1816, a son Thomas was baptized. The parents were John “Roark” and Mary Flanagan. I just recently found this. Does this mean Thomas’s grandfather was named Thomas? If so, is the latter Thomas my ancestor in common with the current Thomas O’Rourke of Ballintur, Killowen? These are just some thoughts I’ve had recently.
Lois
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633277#page/30/mode/1up